H.E.R.O.S Poker On FullTilt Poker
There has been some debate going on about how Fulltilt Poker has changed the rotation on the high stakes tables from H.O.R.S.E to H.E.R.O.S. Many say this is just a publicity stunt but others believe this benefits some players. While researching the issue I can across a conversation that happened at the high stakes HORSE tables between the Fulltilt Pro’s Mike Matusow and David Singer. Here is the convo below, it’s pretty funny.
Table Chat – High Stakes HORSE Poker
Mike: u make the site look bad
Mike: ushouldnot be allowed to be in red
David: u must be crazy mike, i don’t even know what
u r talking about
Mike: u dont u sit out everyholdem and most o 8s
David: what exactly do u think i did that was so bad?
Mike: ijsuttold u
Mike: for a guy that wins everyholdem tourn id be
embarrassed toshowmy face
David: i didn’t understand it because of the typing error
David: u r saying i didn’t play stud/8 and holdem?
Mike: u neve rplay holdem an dplay o 8 one out of
5rounds everyday like stone nit
Mike: and u make the site look bad
Mike: and u should be embarrassed
Mike: yea ibet he deos and i bet he wont be in red
after i get done tellign howard what he does everyday
Mike: others are sick of it
David: i am not trying to be funny, but because u r
typing badly, i don’t understand u. I get u r saying i sit out the hold’em, but r u saying i sit out the stud/8?
Mike: never mind u willknow soon
David: u must be on drugs
Now that is pretty funny. Mike Matusow is an ultra douchebag but it makes me think. Should players be able to sit out of certain games in H.O.R.S.E poker? Obviously you can’t make them play and everyone should have a right to sit out whenever they feel like it, even poker players need to piss.
However, if a player consistently sits out of the same game on a regular basis than I feel that person should not be allowed to play HORSE poker. My reason is that the HORSE tables are so juicy because typically people only specialize in 1-2 of the games and in the other two they are only average players. A good example would be a 7 card stud player that sits out on the other four games. This would give the Stud player a pretty big advantage over the other players? What would happen if everyone started sitting out on their “bad games”? The H.O.R.S.E games would become pretty retarded and players like me and you that can dominate all 5 games (Well, maybe not me but probably you 
would not be making any money.
The whole concept of mixed poker games like HORSE poker is about testing your skills or lack thereof against players playing a variety of games. Can a strong Holdem player beat me on a regular basis? Yes, he can but even if he knew how to play the other four games profeciently I would still likely take his money at a HORSE poker table. I have contacted Full Tilt Poker support about this so I will hopefully hear back soon. I will update this post when I hear back.
—Update—
I just heard back from Fulltilt, they said that if a player is not playing all the rotations in one of their mixed poker games on a regular basis you should report them. They will be issued a warning and if they continue to do it they may have their account closed.
January 9th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
“They will be issued a warning and if they continue to do it they may have their account closed.”
???
That seems a crazy response from FullTilt. Im assuming it’s cash games as tournies deal with that sort of thing via blinds.
I would take the blinds approach to ring games too if this is an issue, just a put them on a forced blind on re-entry after sitting out a certain number of hands.
The banning approach is nuts. Every player has the option to up and leave if they dont like how the game is panning out.
If a up and coming boxer is known for having a big punch it makes it very difficult for him to find a fight. He ends up fighting monkeys until his all round skill is exposed, then he is finished.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HWX2CVv-CEw
Above? Amir Khan had one weakness, his chin. All he had to do was avoid the puncher. His opponent is good but his all round skill is questionable.
In the same light, if a poker player decides to only play certain games because the overall standard in certain games is below the standard, other players have the option to avoid him. soon enough he will have to move back to holdem or find somewhere else to play.
Yes, with the MC, lol
January 9th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
You are the only one that ever leaves comments Ed (thank you for that!). I think if a person consistently sits out during one of more of the rotations that person should be banned after being warned, or at least blocked from playing at the HORSE tables. Basically the point I was getting at is lets say there was a player that would sit out every Texas Holdem and Omaha Hi-Lo rotation. This would upset many of the other players at the table because it would give him an unfair advantage. People are drawn to HORSE to test their skills for all 5 games against others skills for all 5 games.
I bet a solid Holdem player could really clean up at the HORSE tables if he only played the Holdem rotation. I guess it all boils down to sportsman-like conduct. I doubt they have ever banned anyone for this and it would take quite a few complaints to get them to take action and even then I’m sure they would only do so if it was an extreme case like a Holdem player only playing Holdem. If everyone started doing this though it would defeat the whole purpose of mixed games which would suck for me lol. I’m rambling on and on now but I don’t often get to respond to comments lol. BTW, Nicole says hello.
January 9th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Yes I agree to an extent, but not the banning part. Poor sportmanship for sure but when money is involved that sort of happens. Our football or soccer as you call it is plagued with players taking dives, trying to claim a penalty and unfair advantage. It’s poor sportsmanship but part of the game. In that respect I would stamp down heavily on it but in a poker game, you have a choice. All the player has to to is fold/fold/fold around a particular variation and no harm done.
I guess Matusow & yourself are doing others a favor by highlighting the case but realistically i dont think anything can be done other than leave the player to play heads-up with himself.
I dont think it will be an issue at the high stakes because most know what they are facing but it could be a problem at the lower stakes. The only other way around it I can think of is a small anti whether you are sitting out or not, for all players.
February 26th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Great post man, I agree.
April 10th, 2009 at 4:47 am
I agree with some of the comments I have read on your blog, great posts, keep up the good work your doing!
April 11th, 2009 at 2:01 am
Great post man, I agree. Just searched on Google about this and found you blog…
May 20th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
I can not believe what I am reading.
If a player habitually sits out a round as his strategy so be it. It is a disadvantage to do so. If you think it is an advantage then do it yourself.
I am strongest with stud and weakest with hld’em omhilo.
In general I play these super-tight. In fact often no hand at all esp. in a turbo but I would never sit out and blow the chance to play monster and near monster hands.
If someone wants to sit out, antes are there and my player equity is up for that round.
sitting out a round habitually is as dumb as the player who builds a big stack and then sits out to ride the tide to a money finish.
June 3rd, 2009 at 4:28 am
Paul – I are referring to ring tables, not sitngo’s & MTT’s.
April 11th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Having had no experience with HORSE in a B&M, I have to ask, do they do anything different (via house rule) in a live game to discourage this?
The very nature of the mixed games seems to require that you have to play all the games. This is a situation where a higher level of commitment to play is both a requirement and a common expectation. Playing tight is an option, but being excused from a phase/game of the mix should not be an option.
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Perhaps if 2 table types are offered, one no-sit-outs and one as-is, the players will ultimately decide what type they want to play, the same as choosing a speed or normal table. Private tables would have no restriction.
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How would an implicit (explicit?) agreement pop-up when a player sits down at a mixed game that they will pay all ante and bring-ins whether they are sitting in or not (their choice to leave). Just how bad is it if you’re not allowed sitting out in a mixed game (software already knows difference between timing out and disconnected, so I’m not sure how you could circumvent it if so desired)?
Enforce a limit on how many hands per hour sat out? (allows for break. too many hands out => boot from the table). Requires a software change.
Unless you can show me it is a clear violation of policy, I can’t see banning.